WW3

[Fallen JeStEr]

America gets bitched at if we don't help and bitched at if we do help. We tried staying out of WWII and got bitched at. Now we go in and still get bitched at. So why don't we just go in and turn the country into whatever we want. We are still the biggest civilization that has not tried to take over the world.

100% infidel and proud of it! Hahahahaha oh I hate the Middle East.
They ride camals and we just want to see some camal toe!

[Spin]

[quote=Fallen JeStEr]America gets bitched at if we don't help and bitched at if we do help. We tried staying out of WWII and got bitched at. Now we go in and still get bitched at. So why don't we just go in and turn the country into whatever we want. We are still the biggest civilization that has not tried to take over the world.
[quote]

yup, yup i second that, if we try and just sit still then we get bitched at by the people in our own country saying we are not doin enough to save world peace, but yet when we get involved we have enemies within our own borders that are born and bred inside our own borders staging sit-ins cuz we are there, and we shouldnt be there....I agree kinda with Scorp on this as the UN is nothing but a bunch of people that do nothing but talk...and get nothing accomplished, ex. how did Iran treat the deadlines that the UN imposed on them for this whole nuclear crap? yeah thats what i thought, oh yeah Iran didnt do jack..all they did was flip the UN off and tell them to go screw themselves. And I do believe they have nuclear capability, and it came from Russia and is still coming from Russia(Russia has warned other countries from taking aggressive action angainst Iran). WTF is that all about eh? I dont think China will get involved as somebody said earlier their economy is very fragile rt now, and it wouldnt take much to collapse it.

From the looks of it Congress might get their way and get all our troops out by the end of next year...if it happens I'm cool with it, but heaven forbid you won't be able to watch anything on tv cuz the evening news will be packed with everything thats goin on(new wars and inter political parties warring to get control) its already going on and will get increasingly worse when we leave...I dont think us staying there will stop it either though, I dont know the answer.

I would just like to see all the people that have nothing but complaints about how its being handled, just to see what their answer is..and to actually use a thought process when answering, not just say lets pull out...ALL the experts on both sides of the fence agree that just pulling out right now would be horrible in the final actions of it all. I dont really know what a year more will do either though.

I dont understand why Iran felt the need to grab the British sailors, it just dont make no sense, but they have been looking for a reason to drag the US into a war since we invaded Iraq.

Who knows, I don't know, if those that feel they know, I would like to see the SENSIBLE solutions to this...even Senator Clinton has dropped the whole I'll get our troops home and jumped onto the national healthcare(which i feel we need also). I dunno, the american people have spoke their minds when they voted the congress into office this past election and the congress looks to be moving into action, so we'll see.

[Sc0rPi0n]

I know your a hard core liberal Khaoz so lets agree to disagree. I'll just say that the U.N. is a total joke, that I applaud the U.S. for stepping in and taking action, and that there are situations in this world like Somalia, Sudan, and N. Korea that need to be taken care of because the environment is volatile and innocent people are dieing by the millions. Ever watch God of War? That is what is happening. I think Bush is an idiot, but we should have gone in because of what Saddam did the the Kurds and the killing and torturing of millions of people. That isn't an American ideal, that is an ideal of human nature, that trying to wipe out an entire ethnic group is wrong. Same as with slavery. Fact of the matter is that the standing policy is that we have to have a threat from another country to go to war, hence the WMD that Iraq supposedly had.

Question Khaoz. What has the U.N. done in the past decade to resolve the situations in N. Korea, Somalia, and Sudan; and what do you propose we do? Sit back and watch the show?

Truly, I don't care about money or wealth, or religion or ethnicity. I am going to be teaching social science education and cultural relativism. What I want in this world are people bound by a single goal and not blinded by ideals. I want other people to experience what it is like to be LIBERAL. LIBERALS/DEMOCRATS should have the mindset to liberate the people of the world, not be pussies and sit at home while innocents in this world are suffering. I don't like the Middle East. Why? Because of the laws that they force on their people. Religion and state law are tied into one, you CANNOT convert from Muslim to another religion because that is considered treason and you are executed. It happens sometimes. And it is all spread through propaganda. What DO I know? I know that if I want to believe that I came from space, and wanted to wear pink pajamas in public and stand outside my yard holding a sign that said I hate Jews, I could.

[Sc0rPi0n]

That is something I can agree with. Why invade Iraq? It might be because the American people are already familiar with Iraq, the Kurds, and terrorism. It was easier to convince the ignorant people. It might also be because of the oil wealth. It was an easier path to take.

But I want to see this nation in Sudan, Somalia, and N.Korea more than Iraq. I want to know why there isn't something being done about this NOW, while people can still be saved. There are millions of refugees all through Africa from the hundreds of years of war that has plagued that continent; and the common theme is that there is NO U.S. intervention.

Which brings me to my next point. The world will still hate us. Look at Somalia. The movie Black Hawk Down illustrates what happens when there isn't any U.S. intervention. They absolutely hated the U.S., the information propaganda machine was definitely working at full force there, to the point that women and children were shooting at soldiers who they knew nothing about, only that they were American. America is the worlds favorite scapegoat. "Your hungry? Blame the Americans, they are so wealthy but they take your food away. Your kid is dieing from AIDS? Blame America, they bring AIDS to this country and have medicine to stop it but they don't. Your uncle die from being shot? Blame America, caused this war and they could easily stop the killing in this country."

There are two chilling images that will haunt me for the rest of my life. One is of a U.S. soldier being dragged through the streets, with his body completely desecrated. I am talking cigarette holes in his body, being spit and pissed on, with chunks torn out of his side. In the foreground there are kids smiling and dancing. Another picture is of two male decapitated heads. How do I know they were males? Their entire male organ was shoved in their mouth. Pictures like this open your eyes to the world.

[Sc0rPi0n]

"By nature's law, man is at peace with man till some aggression is committed, which, by the same law, authorizes one to destroy another as his enemy." --Thomas Jefferson

[Fallen JeStEr]

Hans Blink oh no!!!!!!!!!!

[KhaOZ]

Yeah, we'll just agree to dissagree. Your ways of thinking, not so much scorps, but you others, seem so ignorant to me. It's that kind of thinking that makes me ashamed to be American some days.

There are situations as I said where we need to be the world police, but we are going about it all wrong. There were countries that needed our attention much more than Iraq. Iraq was handled, they weren't creating WMDs, Saddam was no longer torturing or killing his own people, and Al Qaeda was proven to have NO relations with Iraq or Saddam, so how can you justify this war? How can you justify that we didn't invade and deal with N. Korea, but we were so quick to jump the gun on Iraq? At least N. Korea actually DOES pose a threat to someone.

To me it seems like many of you will just say or think anything to justify yourselves. Accept the facts, this country is fucked and getting more fucked by the minute, and accept its the rash decision making of a tyrant president that has put us in this situation.

The US is Damned if we do, Damned if we don't, but at least of we don't, we survive as a country without spending 600 billion dollars on a country that doesn't want us there. At least if we don't we don't take people who had decent lives and cut off their clean water, electricity, and well beings for over 2 years. NOTHING good has come of this war that makes up for all the bad. We're cutting down our military because we're broke. Many defense programs are being cut because we're broke. The future and safety of our country is much much worse because of this war, and yet you people defend it?

It just seems ignorant to me. Very very ignorant.

[Spin]

Originally Posted by KhaoZ

Yeah, we'll just agree to dissagree. Your ways of thinking, not so much scorps, but you others, seem so ignorant to me. It's that kind of thinking that makes me ashamed to be American some days.

lol, i not tryin to be difficult Khaoz but i dont understand...my ways of thinking make you ashamed to be an american?? lol, im seriously lost...and yeah i know how ya feel when you say we'll just agree to disagree...its that kinda compromise that needs to happen in todays world that doesn't thats causing all the world problems.

[KhaOZ]

Just answer me this. If it's our country and the world you really care about, then how can you agree that reducing our defense, our military, our border patrol funding, our education funding, putting this country in massive debt, and the breading of terrorists, is a good thing? Just answer me that please.

Should we continue to "Act" without thinking of the consequences until our country is abolished?

I work for the military, my wife is Air Force, my 2 little brothers marines, my dad Air Force, 1 uncle Army, 1 uncle Air Force, step dad Air Force, my entire family is military here guys. Most of them have their jobs at risk because of this over spending, and others are putting their lives at risk for a war many of the troops don't even believe in. How is any of this a better situation than if we had let the UN continue with Iraq? Iraq was NO THREAT to ANYONE.

I just seriously don't get how any of you can be so blind.

[Sc0rPi0n]

Originally Posted by KhaoZ

Just answer me this. If it's our country and the world you really care about, then how can you agree that reducing our defense, our military, our border patrol funding, our education funding, putting this country in massive debt, and the breading of terrorists, is a good thing? Just answer me that please.

Should we continue to "Act" without thinking of the consequences until our country is abolished?

I don't think it is. But if I am not mistaken, it is the democrats who are squeezing funding out of Iraq. Funding needs to be put into Iraq while the troops are taken out.

I don't believe that the consequences were ever anticipated in this situation. We "won the war" in like a week remember? The occupation was a disaster, the Iraqi citizens were at war with each other. The nation should have been SPLIT and two seperate forms of government should have been set up. To the people over there, religion and ethnicity are not tolerable.