Some Deep Shit

**Sc0rPi0n** · 03-07-2007, 09:36 PM

Yo, this is brought up every once in a while on these boards, am gonna bring it up again because it is a fun topic. I am in several philosophy classes, am a semi-big science buff, and all that jazz.

In religion, God created everything. If that is so, how did God come into existence?

In science, the big bang was the beginning. If that is so, what initiated the big bang?

Now, with this being said; I don't care what religion you are, if your an atheist, or what. Bottom line is, how does something come into existence out of nothing. Can anyone explain that? Can it even be comprehended?

The idea that there is a God goes hand in hand with the master designer theory. That there is order in the universe and God creates order. But if this is true, God is infinite, and you cannot use something that is infinite to describe something that is finite. Therefore the world is not intelligible(no hard facts because the foundation is not explained), which is the central foundation of what every person strives for, truth.

If science is founded on reason, and theories are used in science, yet the central ideas and its foundations are unknown, you cannot have a world that is intelligible. There are no facts, there is no truth.

So here is the question. Imagine nothing exists at all. Out of this, explain how something can come into existence. If you can do this(Any way possible), you will have successfully derived a theorem that can explain the universe

This is all based on whether you think that truth can be quantifiable. If not, than there is no truth in the world anyways. But if you believe that everything can be explained, that the world is finite, and that there is truth, than get cracking.

Good Luck

Edited for grammer

**Hell-Kite** · 03-07-2007, 09:42 PM

according to religion, god always had been, which in itself is not comprehensible according to modern logic.

I believe the big bang theory is the universe was one large collection of dense matter that compressed in on itself

03-12-2007, 02:28 AM

I mean no disrespect scorp (really), but i dont believe in anything. If i had to say anything out of thinking about this i'd say all people with beliefs are fools for wasting their time, as can be derived from your statments above.

future, not past.

do you have any thoughts on this, scorp?

**KhaOZ** · 03-12-2007, 04:06 AM

Interesting Scorp, though I have no clue as to how to answer any of that. I always grew up agnostic and atheist, flipping back and forth from believing there might be a god, and there is no god. My wife lead me to religion, and I am now Catholic. Do I believe in everything the bible and it's followers say? Not even close, but what I do believe in, is that many goods, including happiness, derive from the sorts of communities and positive thinking that surrounds some religions. Only a fool would believe in "nothing", and it took me a good 23 years of my life to realize that. Something doesn't come from Nothing, as you have stated, therefore, "SOMETHING" started all of this. As to what that "SOMETHING" is, I doubt any of us will truly know within our life times.

What's odd though, is how true many predictions can be. Supposedly we live in the Millennium of non believers. There was some prediction thousands of years back, that said in this Millennium, religion would see a great decline. People would begin to lose faith in the masses, and believe in nothing. That scares me in a way, because when I believed in nothing, I also cared for near nothing. It may partially explain the mess our planet is in now, then it may not. Then again, perhaps all of that has something to do with why I gave religion a try? lol. I've always been one to go against the trend, and the common trend today, is that young people believe in nothing.

Quite a few times in my recent life, or perhaps longer but I blinded myself to it, God has done things that prove his existence to me. Things I prayed for, that had a 1 in a million shot, but came true, and have come true every time I truelly had an honest need. I wont go into more detail than that, because I can't say "WHAT" god is, or how to worship, if we even should worship, or if it's even a he, or any of that. All I know is, against all odds, when there was an extreme need, something happened to help me along. Something big enough, and enough times, that I couldn't simply write it off as chance anymore, no matter how hard headed and blind I try to be to such things. I'm a realist, a person who takes most things at face value, so it is extremely hard for me to admit what I just said, but God, my guardian Angel, or what ever it is, deserves my acknowledgment.

I honestly can't say WHAT anyone should believe in, except that, if something feels right, and makes you happy, go with it. Plenty of people before us lived out healthy, happy, and exciting lives, believing in things that science has proven wrong today. There is nothing wrong with that in my view. The rest of us could only wish to be so lucky.

Back to your question though. A take on it all would be, that we don't have the ability to comprehend how the universe came to be. We would first have to control the entire universe, and then spend long periods of time studying to find it's origins. I think the true answer to all of these questions is so complex, that man kind may not even be around to see it answered. Or perhaps we all live in a marble that some alien is playing with, like in Men In Black :)