It's important to 'keep hate alive'
 

Destroying a president is not much of a strategy to win a war, but it's all the Democrats have.

The churls of the left don't seem to care whether their country wins the war, the important thing is to "keep hate alive." If hate worked in '06, maybe it will work again in '08, when the stakes will be considerably higher.

Sometimes it's not only hate, but a bit of schadenfreude, too, taking pleasure in the woes of the enemy. "Partisan pleasure in George Bush's pain dates to the anguish of the contested 2000 election loss," observes Daniel Henninger in the Wall Street Journal. "The Democrats have run against something called 'Bush' for so long this sentiment is now bound up in any act or policy remotely attached to the president. Iraq's troubles, or Iran or North Korea, are merely an artifact of crushing this one guy."

The president's tormentors in Congress, some old and some new, insist they don't have anything against the fine young Americans with their lives on the line in Iraq, but the troops are dispensable to the larger partisan goal of destroying George W. and abdicating the responsibility that comes with being the world's only superpower. If the troops are hurt, too, well, that's just a risk the critics will have to endure.

Senators are leading the rush to judgment. Hillary Clinton, buoyed by the early polls that show her blowing Barack Obama out of the race, scoffs that the war she voted for is "a dead end." Susan Collins of Maine, a Republican, asks whether "the clock has already run out." The very point of her question is the smug assertion that of course it has. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, who has all but given up his ambition to be John McCain when he grows up, says the obvious: "We have anarchy in Iraq. It's getting worse." You can hear the glee in his voice. John Warner of Virginia, eager to demonstrate that he's no son of the hard, determined men who wrote the book on standing firm against all odds as a fabled army of northern Virginia, rushes to join partisans across the aisle to forge a resolution of regret, retreat and ruin. "Nonbinding," of course. Senators never bind themselves to anything but their egos and personal interests (which is why we haven't elected a senator as president in nearly half a century).

Sometimes a senator, oily and evasive as only senators can be, lets slip a remark that reveals all. David Gregory of NBC News provoked Chuck Schumer, the Democratic senator from New York, into such a revealing remark the other day. He reminded him of Vice President Cheney's description of the Senate resolution as something (a) the president wouldn't pay any attention to because (b) it would "be detrimental to the troops on the ground."

The senator thought he was only begging to differ when he replied: "Absolutely not, and I think it's going to be shown, when this resolution comes up, and it is nonbinding, that not only are we going to get a vast majority of Democrats to vote for it in one form or another, but close to the a majority of the Republicans."

The reporter pressed him to answer the question: "But how can the public really buy the Democrats' support of the troops but don't support the mission? How can you do both?"

How, indeed. How do you tell the troops that "we resolve, to paraphrase John Kerry, you're probably not much better than war criminals, but hey, guys, we support you." Mr. Schumer squirmed, and his face reflected just for an instant the look of a man cornered. "Well," he finally replied, "that's the difficulty. A resolution that says we're against this escalation, that's easy. The next step will be how do you put further pressure on the administration but still support the troops who are there? And that's what we're trying to figure out."

The fiercest critics of the commander in chief (the one the critics despise) and his troops (the ones the critics support) concede they don't have a clue about what the president should do in Iraq. "I can't tell you what the path to success is," says Norm Coleman, a Republican of Minnesota. Joe Biden, plagiarizing every other weak sister in town, says the "primary" strategy is to make the Iraqis "compromise" and "end the violence." Hillary says the president should "talk to bad people" to see what they want (the "bad people" have already said exactly what they want, loud and clear). John Edwards says he would get tough as president, and if talk doesn't work he'll talk some more.
But of course. Isn't that what senators do?

I dunno, all I know is this government has fucked this country in the ass and they need to be hung for the situation they've put us all in. It's to the point that I doubt if my 2 sons will have a United States to grow up in. This administration has taken us to war using lies and is using the war to fatten their own pockets with 433,000 shares in the companies running the contracts in Iraq. It is all a case of greed, and in the mean time we are creating terrorists by the thousands. The united states breeds terrorists all over the world, and makes this world a scary place to live in.

I for one am no longer proud of my red white and blue. I am ashamed. Other countries of the world look at our president as the new Hitler and are aligning against him, yet the ignorant of this country buy into his "if you don't support me, you're not American" speeches.

This country is hurt. So hurt I don't see us bouncing back for a LONG time, if ever. We have near doubled the national debt in Bush's time. Billions lost in Iraq that are unaccounted for. We have spent so much money in iraq that they say if taxes were double in the US starting next year, that we would have the IRAQ war paid off by 2040. Our own people are hurting, yet we continue to build other countries we should have never even been in to begin with.

This country needs to stand together against this administration, and stop this tyrant from doing as he sees fit with no regard of the American people. We as a Nation need to protect ourselves, cause or government no longer is capable of doing that for us. Most of all, we need to protect ourselves from the government itself.

I just can't believe we have let it get THIS bad. I am sad to see so many Americans bow down to King Bush. All hail the Monarch?

Oh, and how do you support the troops but not the Mission? Easy. I know so many military who don't believe in the IRAQ war and think it's bullshit that we're even there, including my marine brother who's been to Iraq, but as they say "it's my job, I go where they send me". If they did not, there would be hell to pay going against orders and the mission, but they do it for their country, not the idiots in charge of it. So it is very easy for me to support people who do their duty and follow the orders of their leaders, even if they don't agree with what they are doing themselves.

"Vice President Dick Cheney's Halliburton stock options have risen 3,281 percent in the last year, RAW STORY can reveal.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney."

Not including the billions they've "missplaced" in miss kept books over in Iraq.

-----------------
Cheney told "Meet the Press" in 2003 that he didn't have any financial ties to the firm.

"Since I left Halliburton to become George Bush's vice president, I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest," the Vice President said. "I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years"

Cheney continues to received a deferred salary from the company. According to financial disclosure forms, he was paid $205,298 in 2001; $162,392 in 2002; $178,437 in 2003; and $194,852 in 2004.
--------------

Not saying to take everything in these videos to heart, but it's interesting to hear:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CXPD7HuDBk4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ciXi1d4Oi1M

And here's some more numbers from what we've spent in IRAQ thus far:

Let's see, which would have given us the most for our money...or the most protection from terrorists? Would it be...

A. the money we've spent so far in Iraq
B. 6,000,000 new teachers
C. 700 new elementary schools in EVERY state
D. 8,000,000 new police officers
E. 6,000,000 new port cargo inspectors
F. a year's worth of gas for EVERY American driver

How mant times did you just post in a row? :P

If either side of the fence digs around they can find TONS of videos/articles to support their claims....I took from ITHs' post that instead of pointing the finger and accusing and wanting the death penalty..maybe we should ALL find a solution..but nahh its much easier to just play the blame game and pass the buck. And yes I agree that the political system in this country is messed up but its what we have...nobody said jackshit when Clinton sent troops into Somalia with little or nothing to even come close to fighting that battle, and what was the purpose of us being there? People that live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

I just wish the finger pointing would stop and the ones that are pointing the fingers would actually have a realistic solution to this problem, however I dont agree with Bush when he says that he will pass this war onto the next president, God how would ya like to have that task staring ya in the face for the next president.

There is no solution to the problem except to continue to try and rally people against Bush. You say to stop blaming people and find a solution, good luck there, cause Bush has stated harshly many times that he will do what he wants no matter what the House, Senate, or American people say. "I am the decision maker, not you" were his words.

When you have a tyrant who gives everyone no choices, there are no "solutions" except to bring that tyrant down.

thank u spin at least someone got it. and khaoz u know better than i that the president is the commander and chief he is the deciding person when it comes to military matters. no matter what the house or senate say. now when it comes to financial ties thats where he is fucked and thats also what i am saying. u cant say "we support the troops" while u cut off the money that supplies us weapons. food, and armor. u just cant say that. neither side has got it right amen to that but the opposition hasn't come up with anything good yet except bush is a tyrant and is wrong... and??? do something about it come up with a solution.. ive been to both Iraq and Afghanistan in the past two years, should we be there?? i think yes should we have gone in the first place?? no.. 2 different questions. but we cant run away now or iraq becomes worse than what it was when we started.

this country does not need anymore "lets rally against bush" rhetoric it helps nothing it creates more controversy... We stand together or fall together, we made our bed time to sleep in it for another 2 years.

I disagree. People have been presenting alternatives to him for years, yet he just continues to say "I will do what I want". The US spends more in funding of our military, than every other military of the world COMBINED, so I don't see cutting the funding as a bad thing. We're simply spending far to much on it. Of every tax dollar the American people pay, over 50 cents of it goes to the military alone. Less than 2 cents to our schools. Our priorities are fucked. If bush refuses to listen to the people of this country, and continues to "do what he wants" without consideration, then the they have to do SOMETHING. If taking his money out from under him is what it takes to force his hand, then that's what it takes.

Bush himself said in 2001 before ANY Of this happened, that the US needed to stop trying to rebuild other countries. That if we continued to do so, we would be in major financial trouble. Now look at us. How can you trust a man like that? There are no alternatives here. 2 years is too long. At our current rate, many analysts believe this country is on a path to doom, and if our leadership is saying things like "it's my decision. I will do what I want", then we have no choice but to stand together as the American people, and bring down these Tyrants. This is a Democracy, not a Monarchy.

If I were on the East Coast, I would have been with the 100,000 people who marched on the white house yesterday in protest. Never thought I'd say that, I mean, I voted for Bush the first time, and have always thought myself a Republican, but now with 2 kids, I fear for their future. So my ideas have changed, and I started to give a shit.

BTW, I still do respect your opinion ITH. I mean, this country is very split still. Sure the # of people against Bush is up to 67% of our country, but we are still a very split people. I expect there will be many of us who don't see things eye to eye on these issues, and that's fine. As long as we can try to understand eachother's point of view, then at least it's not blind pig headed arguing, heh.

I sometimes just feel very lost in this country as of late. And it worries me.

discussion is what a forum is all about imo but like u said as long as it doesnt get into a pig headed arguement. because no matter what anyone says i dont think, in reality, anyone is going to change their views on anything over this board.

and khaoz i dont like the little humiliation tag under my name, if u could think up something for me id really appreciate it. im old school enough for it right.

nop sorry you need 20 years minimum!! lol! i want my I AM CANADIAN!! tag back too damit!!

On another note which is far worse then war, Canda's temperature in increasing twice as fast as everyone else's cause of global warming. GOd damn pollution, 400 billion could implant a global hydrogen distribution system!! But nooooo lets kick the living shit out of each other its much more fun, then we can all witness the planet blowing up together... woot!!

We gotta save the damn polar bears, start using your bikes people!! get some exercise going you damn lazy bastards or we all gonna die!!!

Stay tuned for more!!

i do ride my bike after i drive to where its garaged lololol...just kid'n
and lets not forget about the energy companies(electric and others) that are polluting the air massively producing the services that we all use daily, so turn them lights off when you leave the room kids.

I agree with ITF and Khaoz, discussion is good, it brings up important views and opinions from both sides, as long as the people involved are willing to be open minded enough to try and look at it from the others view, knowing full well that nobodies mind more then likely will get changed.

But even though people have been presenting ideas in the past, thats what it is, in the past, what happened then cannot be changed, we need to focus on the now....who out of all the finger pointers have presented a "realistic" solution to the problem of Iraq? Like ITH said that if we pull out straight up the country will be worse then it is now or ever was....i think we need to present some sort of incentive to the Iraqi police and armed forces that if they take over control of the security of the country then they get blah, blah....personally i would think that ones self pride for their country would drive them to want to defend their own country on their own, but again their government is just about a spitn image of ours, corrupt from every angle....i dont really know what else we could do as a country to solve this problem other then what i suggested.

ideas?

Well, since you're old school and don't play with FA anymore we can put you into the "Legends" group if you want, which would make your title "Legend". Humiliation isn't an insult though, the board names go in order of the Quake3/UnrealTournament sayings when you get consecutive kills. Like "Multi Kill!" "Wicked Sick!" "Humiliation!", etc etc. As you make more posts it goes up.

If you want to be put in Legends, just let me know.

-K

What KhaoZ is saying (it should be obvious)

BUSH = MISSION
TROOPS = PEOPLE

They (the troops) are doing what they are told by the administration (bush) and they have to wether they like it or not. It's what they signed up for. the MISSION is killing the PEOPLE.

I'm listening.

let me rephrase: "There is no solution to the problem except to continue to try and rally people against the path Bush is leading us down." In general it's not *just* the man but the effect. but...

...who is *actually* responsible here? It's not like he just was forced into it. Leadership must change, and quick. Thank god for the elections. (Disclaimer: Bush is not god)

Bush is accountable, he *should* be hung for what he's done.

KhaoZ makes an inescapable argument of what is happening over in Iraq.
^a lot of my stuff was taken out for the sake of brevity.

Would you want to be that kid? Your money is paying for such to happen in Iraq right now. As will your kids and most likely your grandkids.

When Clinton was in office a lot of stuff got taken care of that wasn't being taken care of before. Things like education and debt payment were being worked out, so much for that!

We. Are. Fucked. so badly that it makes me want to check out Canada (i live in Michigan, it wouldn't be much different climate wise and stuff) and their legal systems, etc. Michigan holds 2 of the top 3 cities in the country for unemployment percentages last time i checked. #1) Philly, #2) Detroit, #3) Grand Rapids (MY CITY). My dad is working underpaid at a nursing home doing crazy extra hours to "keep up". We now owe a buncha money, our internet had to be downgraded, our cable is as basic as it comes, my truck barely starts but I can't afford a new one because there are hardly any jobs. People with degrees are working at pizza places. ....my ISP comes out of Kalamazoo which is 50 minutes away because of GR's shit econ!

What the hell do you think will happen to michigan if we keep spending all this money? We can't keep up with all the shit going on *BEFORE* the war.

Just because you have heat in your home, an internet connection and prolly 20 wireless connections in your neighborhood, 2+ cell phones and fancy gadgets... JUST BECAUSE you *THINK* it's all going to "work out in the end" *DOESN'T* mean it will.


Sometimes it takes big things to make you see the full picture. This war is that big thing. what do smokers do to quit after they *watch* someone die from cancer or get diagnosed themselves? they go cold turkey until they can manage to deal with the problem.

Stop with your "stop pointing fingers and fix it" shit. This isn't a broken toy that a sibling stepped on. these are real people in real cities with their own beliefs exactly similar to you and I. Good/evil? right/wrong? Juice and the squeeze... think about what your options are.

and that's all i have to say about that

Aight points taken, as I asked in my last post and ITF was getting to in his post, but nobody seems to come up with except rally against the "path" that Bush has taken us down...then what?? We are still faced with the problem at hand..


I believe i have suggested something in the last paragraph of my last post...and thats about as realistic as I can get for the problem at hand.

Again, I say so Bush is gone, then the next lucky Moneygrubber we will call a President will take office and face this same problem what do we do?

As far as Clinton goes what exactly were we in Somalia getting our asses kicked because we only gave our Soldiers 1 magazine of ammo to fight a battle...but thats an "in the past" discussion I get told....well I agree what Bush has said and done is in the past, he will NOT be President next term.....sooooo the question remains for the next President as he will be faced with this question, what do we do?? Realistically.

Ideas?

And I'm not atrying to sound shrewd or like an ass when I say this...Ask any economist, the best way to revive an economy is to start a war, its a VERY sad but true point, the problem is that when you start a war there is soo much at stake as far as your own countrymen...And I don't wanna get into the conspiracy theories as they don't change anything or supply a "realistic" option for ending this....What can the other political party provide for this country besides just pointing fingers and NOT following them fingers with options, as after the next elections its going to be time for them to step up to the plate I feel, and Lord help us all if it doesn't turn out good after the next guy takes office...

again I ask ideas?

after re-reading ITHs' first post again, the question of Democrats AND Republicans, The war is a very serious issue and running point of this next election, so what is either party going to do to win my vote besides the hatemongering that is going on from the democratic side....what is their running points...I beg either side of the Political system to win my vote...Sen. Clinton has openly admitted that she has no idea what to do about it, and like her I agree thats its crap that Bush passes this along to the next President.

Khaoz I totally understand where your coming from as those of you that have children and every decision you make affects them in every way for the future.

I just want to know for either party what they are going to do about:
1. The war
2. The well being of this country.
3. Healthcare, it sucks to be honest, I have insurance but for those that don't I can't imagine how they make if they don't get government assistance. i.e. the elderly that can't afford their meds that medicare won't pay for.
4. Schooling, I think I read somewhere that we are almost the dumbest country as far as graduating classes around the world in the last 15-20 years.
5. Border security.
6. And for God's sake STOP using Social Security to make the deficit look better, if thats even possible to make it look good.


You could prolly swap 3 and 4 around but either way they both need to be addressed

BTW Blood...I like the little title under your ava...I almost fell outta muh chair LMAO

Thanks =) Yeah, I like it too.


I don't know what type of incentive we could give a country that didn't ask for our help, heh. That's like my mom telling me I get a new car if I <whatever here>. I'm not gonna care, man. They've already fucked with me enough I want no part in their games. That's pretty much how I see Iraq. They didn't ask for help or imply it. Someone else comes in and forces help on them.. how would you like that? They mess up and say "Well, if you can fix my messup yourself, I'll give you a treat." my reponse, "........................... yeah right."

Like you said, I don't mean to beat down on people (other than those responsible) but currently I'm having trouble seeing this turn positive. I'd like to see responsibility take place and move on with a clean slate for the next president (ie. not someone who supported bush or really bashed him either). I guess all we can *really* do is protest and look at future canidates. but i don't see Bush getting any kinda "nice" treatment from anyone once he's out of office.

I hope that explains my point of view a little closer. I certainly gained in perspective to yours.

Maybe for incentive we could tell them we'll leave them the hell alone if they pick up the slack....lol...but seriously what is going to happen in that country if we just up and pull our soldiers..it'll be a free for all, they think the fighting now is bad...it'll be like the early 80's all over again, only worse as technology has developed even more intense weapons for them to play with. But we need to find a solution and do it fast, unfortunately neither side of our government has presented a solution as we are beyond the point of return, responsibility will be handed out for this, but that wont solve the problem at hand.

Yeah I'm not seeing this war deal going good for the present or for the next person in line, as much as I dont feel its fair to pass this to the next president, as how do you weigh their performance if they get this whole Iraq war staring them in the face when they take office. But I seen in an earlier post that Bush was saying that HE was the guy that was going to make the call on what was gonna happen...then I see last night that we're talking about war with Iran...well Bush got a real good reality check when Congress made him realise that if they don't pass the bill for money for the war to happen then it don't happen..looks like he not the man after all...well, I wish i had a universal remote so we could rewind and change the things that have happened, unfortunately we can't, and I'm sure if I had one, I could make a killing on it with the politicians lol.

But in reference to ITHs' original post, is all the Dems have to run for office is the hate platform?? I sincerely hope not, as I think we have bigger issues IN this country that need handled after this war is over...I'm pretty interested to see what Sen. Clinton has in mind for getting all the troops out of Irag by the end of '08 i think i heard on the radio...sounds good to me, I'm all for it, lay the plan out present that to the people, and I know that she has a healthcare plan as she was trying to get that through when Bill was in office. So lets evaluate what the candidates will do for our country and make the change.

Well hopefully I didnt get anybody pissed at me, as I've enjoyed the discussion, and seeing other points of view...Like Blood said in his post, all we as a people can do right now is just basically show how unimpressed we are with Bushs' decisions and actions, and when it comes time to vote exercise that right to make the change, and hope the next president and his people can diffuse this whole war that has divided this country.

Check my profile xD

Very well stated. I'll be keeping an eye on the candidates for sure, but not about gay marrage or such, if you catch me. ;)

I do believe I've said everything I feel is important to me so I'd like to thank you all for the discussion as well. Most of all, I'm glad it could be taken with maturity :) That means a great deal to me.

they need to drop a bot with a pdw and some sensors, hook me up to that shit, and let me just end it.

I say level it and plant a flag. Well as an easy quick solution. But in reality its not that easy.

I have a strong support for Bush. Everyone talks bad and says things but anyone remember Clinton? He did nothing. Im sorry I'd rather be hated for standing up for myself then laughed at for cowering. We leave now you are looking at a Viet Nam. I personally don't want to see that. We started something now its time to finish it. I don't really agree with the rebuilding but it happens.

On the subject of debt I think theres more of a problem with welfare and those type of programs. I don't like the fact that I pay taxes for some worthless slob that is too lazy to work or too dumb to take responsibility for their actions. I know my mom worked 3 jobs at times to raise me and never looked for help beyond family looking after me. If she can do it anyone else can as well. Instead the government hands them free money. That agitates me the most.

I'd have to disagree with the 67% disapproval rate for Bush. I know for a fact things are changing in places. Here in MD we are heading from a traditionally democratic state to a republican state. But looking at the polls you would not see this. However riding down the street and seeing so much support for republicans vs. democrats it makes me wonder about our election system. It wasn't even a close race, democrats won pretty much everything, easily. Thats also sad.

However I can agree with K about being scared to bring kids into this world. Im dead scared. However me and kids are still a couple years off(hopefully). But Im not as scared of the outside world as I am of living in my own country. Around here things are getting worse and worse.

As for the war, let our boys and girls do what they do best. As K said, its their job. We elected Bush to lead our country and we elected him based on his values and ideals. Not 1 time but 2 times. I personally think what hes done has been good and respect the fact that he isn't scared to say what he feels and do what he feels is right no matter what everyone else thinks. Thats a good president. Someone working for us, not to make us look good to everyone else.

This is what happens when you have to vote between a douche and a turd-sandwich.

lol exactly...just try and pick the lessor of 2 evils anymore, its pathetic

You blind yourself. You pretend the world is not as it really is, and pretend that by the US being the bully of the world school, we'll be better off, but in the end, we all know that we are creating disturbed kids who will one day bring guns to school, and seriously damage this once great country of ours.

Why continue to blind yourselves and pretend the facts are just opinion. Why pretend people support our president and the republican party even though the last year elections showed they do not, many polls show they do not, and the hundred thousand people who protested at the white house show they do not. Even Republicans in Washington are turning on Bush, because they are realizing that being aligned with the president, means dealing with a pissed off country who is less likely to elect or reelect them.

You think welfare is what is costing us so much? You hate giving your money to fellow Americans who are in a struggle? Yet you don't mention or seem to care that over 50% of all of your tax money goes to the military and to fight this war? To the pockets and rebuilding of a people who do not live in this country? Not saying we should just pull out and leave Iraq stranded, we made the mess, we should help clean it up, but your logic seems backwards to me. Rather than spend money where it is needed in our own country, in schools, health care, poverty, border protection, jobs, how about we just spend it on some random country we should have never entered, and spend it all on people who are not Americans. Sounds like a plan to me! Here is my hard earned money!

Current Percent of Americans Who Disapprove of Bush: 68%
Current Percent of Americans Who Say Bush is Mishandling the Iraq War: 74%

One of my biggest questions in all of this is, why can't we sell the Iraq Oil to help pay for the rebuilding of their own country? Why do the American people have to pay so much for it? The only answer I can think of, is we made the mistake, we made the mess, we elected the man who lied to the world and got us in this position to begin with, so maybe we should be the ones to pay. It's just a sad thing to come to terms with.

cuz its going into a retirement fund for bush

They didn't ask me about that survey so I know they didn't ask everyone, that means the numbers are off. I'd be willing to bet +-30%. It also depends where you ask as to the outcome. Thats just the media skewing stuff as they always do.

I don't like helping my fellow american that refuses to get a job. Plain and simple. I work as does a lot of other people. Why give someone a free ride. They just built section 8 homes where houses usually sell for $1million+ and are selling them to people "in need" for $600,000. Full furnished houses. I paid for that. These people "in need" are driving escalades(sp?) and benzs. I'll be damned if they need the help. However if they did welfare for a set time and made it more like a loan then I'd support it. Right now its a joke. Thats not an opnion, you really should see some of the people "in need". They are better off than I am and I work 40+hrs a week plus side work just to pay bills.

If you saw the areas I did and the republican support here you'd be thinking just as I am about why the state elected all democrats, by a nice margin at that. There was tons of republican support. Also if 100,000 people is all they could muster up for support in an area with millions of residents then that shows less than 10% support for that way of thinking.

I know we are pissing everyone off. However as history has shown being nice doesn't do well either(think bin laden and sadam). Being a "bully" solves problems. Point and case: Japan. They fucked with us we rendered 2 of their cities useless. Now they are nice. I'd personally be a "bully" that no one messes with vs a nice guy that everyone messes with. Just my $.02.

I also realize theres lots of work to do here. However the democrats solution for debt: raise taxes. Sorry I don't bring home enough as is. I support someone that is out to give me more money than someone that is trying to take it away. Schools are a reflection of the area and the money in that area. My schools were great but then again I grew up in a wealthy area.

When it comes down to it this is all opinion. None of us can see the future, we don't know the reactons of our actions now.

Actually, it's an average of about 4 or 5 major polls that were all within a few percentage points and done over the entire country. +-30%? Try +-5% max.


So because you know a few Republican supporters, the whole country is that way? Wrong. And 100,000 shows only 10% support? Wrong as well. You factor in that MOST people don't go out and voice their opinions in protests, and 100,000 is a TON of people.


How about the solution of NOT THROWING AWAY OUR MONEY? Did we NEED to give $600,000,000,000 for a war and a country not of our own? Do we need to pass this bill Bush is trying to get through, that will give him $2,900,000,000,000 for the military so he can continue with Iraq and possibly move on Iran and Syria? Yes, that's 2.9 TRILLION DOLLARS!

When this is all over with, our kids will have no America to live in. We may as well start handing out kids over to other countries as slaves and have them work off our debts, because at this rate it will happen sooner or later anyway.


That explains why you know a lot of republicans. Bush is making the rich richer, and the poor poorer. He's creating a class divide in this nation like has never been seen before.

Well that's just retarded on our government's part if true, helping people buy a $600,000 house, but your argument contradicts itself. No one who is jobless can afford a 600k house. Yet still, you have a problem with spending our money on American's who have been laid off because of the massive job loss in this country, but no problem with burning our money or giving it to other countries?

And I have seen these people "in need". Unlike you, I grew up in poor neighborhoods. I saw people struggle working multiple jobs to make ends meet, and those who did that, plus went to nightschool to try and get out of their situations, yet sometimes it wasn't enough. Not everyone can do that though. There are countless reasons for why people may be struggling. Or sometimes they needed extra help. I have no doubt there are many kinks in our system, and that there are those who don't need the help, getting more help than those who truely do need it. The system needs to be refined, not done away with. Maybe you should come down from your white tower and see what it's like in the common areas. Things aren't as glam as many of you think. And you may find it's not as easy as "get a job!" in many places and situations for many people.


Bully that no one messes with? Everyone is messing with us, or do you not watch the news?

Japan has reinstated their military recently. They are working on becoming a force to be considered again. I think they realize that if the US does go belly up as many are predicting, they have no defenses, since currently we're pretty much their protection. They need more insurance, which is understandable.

And you can not take a single situation and pretend it would be ok to treat the entire world that way. We don't live in those days anymore, where armies met eachother on the battlefield, where you knew who your foe was because he was oposite you on the field, and when you duked it out, the winner was the last man standing. It is not open battle with another nation that we need to be worried about, it's the enemy that wants nothing more than to take as many of us with them as they die. Hiding in shadows. How long till our "bully" tactics piss off so many people, that we get a serious backlash? Chemical, or Nuclear backlash? Something that would make 9/11 look like a papercut. How long till we've invaded to many countries and the world is tired of us? How long till we destroy ourselves by spreading ourselves to thin, and throwing all of our resources/money down the drain? Not long I fear. At least at this rate.

You hate on Clinton for considering what other nations had to say. For using the U.N.. For being part of a world democracy, where no man or nation is king over all, and everyone gets a say. You hate on that? I guess you would if you support a tyrant king like Bush. A man who wont even listen to others and debate the best tactics for the Iraq War. A man who says he will DO WHAT HE WANTS, and it is HIS CHOICE. Are those the words of a leader of a democratic society as we like to pretend the US is? No.

I guess if you support tyranny and a monarchy, then trying to be part of a world union democracy wouldn't be attractive at all. And being a Bully to the world would seem the better alternative.

Long live the king!

im in your poketz spending your l00tz

I hate on Clinton cuz I voted for him, its one thing to send the people of our armed forces to battle...but to do it, arm them less then minimally....and then when the shit hits the fan just try to sweep it under the rug like he didnt know what was going on and then going above and beyond the call of duty to get things stirred up to get the American people to forget about it(via the media)...
I said it before in one of my posts....If either side digs around and picks and chooses their info and statistics, their side will show the benefits What I bring that back up for is this, SO WHAT if there was several polls done and they were averaged, the United States is a HUGE country....if I wanted to skew the numbers all I hafta do is get a registered voters list of who voted predominately republican and have 2-3 of my buddies call the same people after I do...then the President is a hero...the media will skew anything and everything they can to whoever best suits their needs....and on the Clinton topic....Has anyone ever heard a "logical and realistic" reason why we were in Somalia fighting with sticks and stones instead of the best our forces has?? No you will nerever get that answer, "That was in the past let it be" is all you will hear...the following is just a bs letter to Democratic Senator Sarbanes...its supposed to be funny, but in the omfg its so true point...THIS is why I also have a problem with the welfare slobs...as Node said all the ones around here drive better cars, and get free medical attention, and free food, and in some cases if ur on the programs long enough or have enough kids they(the state) will give you vouchers to pay your utilities(no matter if you leave EVERY light in the house on 24/7) and give you vouchers for gas for your car. Now if poeple use it as a temporary thing to help them get back on their feet after an unfortunate situation I understand that as shit happens...but these people that make a career out of living off of the state and MY HARD FUKN EARNED money that is a problem to me...no I dont feel it should be spent in other countries either, and explain to me why we are buying mosquito nets for hospitals in africa???? wtf...I thought we needed the money here?? whatever...everybody has their view, you can either try and see others views with an open mind or you can insesintly argue your point and "refuse" to see anybody elses point....History has shown how the Democratic party votes on things like are in this letter below...draw your own conclusions as I know you will refuse to see any other point of view anyways.

The Honorable Paul S. Sarbanes Senate Office Building
309 Hart Washington DC , 20510

Dear Senator Sarbanes,

As a native Marylander and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.

My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stem from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.

Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.

Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year. Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as "in-state" tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.

Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car. If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.

Your Loyal Constituent,

I'd really doubt the +-5%. Thats impossible. Maybe within those people surveyed. Like I said I wasn't asked, nor was ANYONE I know and I know a lot of people who would speak up about being asked as they all see these "polls" as wrong because they can't possibly ask everyone.



You call over ~60% of the population in an area a few people? Im not sure its exactly 60% but I know I saw more republican supporters than democrat supporters and pretty much every house had one of those signs showing who they supported. Yet some how the area voted democrat. Thats a problem. Everyone sees Maryland turning to republican but the people that count the ballots. Kind of weird if you ask me.



Go for it. Its because he can't do what he wants that it has to cost so much. I know leveling a country doesn't cost that much. It can't. But we have to play nice so it will cost so much. If thats what it takes go for it. Thats a part of my taxes Im proud to pay for, except for the rebuilding part.


What debts? We have the 3rd highest currency in the world. Its going down but I doubt in my lifetime it will become bad enough for the situation you say. However your also forgetting the money other countries owe us. Theres a lot out there. Start collecting to pay off the "debt".



Bush tried to put tax breaks in for everybody, not just the rich. The rich are republicans because they understand that republicans work to make EVERYONE have more money by cutting things like welfare. Im not rich by any means Im actually just into middle class. However I know if you were to cut my taxes to stop paying for the guy down the street who refuses to work(there is plenty of work I can get you help wanted ads if you wish) then I'll bring home more money. If you would cut the gas tax instead of doubling it(democrats idea in MD, we'd have the highest gas tax in the country) I could bring home more money. These are simple things that would help me be more comfortable with my income. Im sorry but Im out to better myself as the crack dealer that breaks into my car on christmas eve to steal all the presents while Im at the store sure as hell doesn't care about me. Bad thing is he drives a benz and lives in government funded houses. Fuck that guy, he needs to be shot. Nothing but a plague on society.


When they are given to you you can afford them on any income. Its not people who have been laid off. You figure Balitomore and DC are some of the more dangerous cities in the country. Laid off?? I doubt it... actually I know thats not the case. The people that want to get out do.


"White tower"? The only reason I'd be up in my "white tower" is because my family and I worked our asses off to make our situation better. Just because Im not dirt poor now doesn't mean I started off that way. Like I said before, when I was born till I was about 3 my mom worked 3 jobs to put a roof over my head and food on the table for me. She didn't eat many nights because she could not afford to. After she got married she went to 2 jobs to make things meet for us. Now that shes married again she works a single job and is picking up a second job(as am I) this summer just to be able to have more than what we just need. So yea, I've seen it with my own eyes. The reason Im working as hard as I am is to not let my kids see the same thing. I want my kids to have a better life then I did. Theres a reason the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor and its not due to taxes. Its attitude. I realized this completely the other day when think about people view of rich people. Its actually a big eye opener. I use to think that you had to be born into it and taxes kept it that way. Actually I was a democrat for a while. Now I realize that anyone can make themselves "rich" with ease. Proper planning and attitude, thats all you need. Also Im not in college because I can't afford to go and am determined to make something of myself without it.


The UN is a joke. Hey everybody lets talk about everything and solve nothing. IF the UN worked sadam wouldn't have needed to be taken out of power. Stalin wouldn't have committed the crimes he did. Yea, it works well. Its just like a glorified League of Nations. Same idea slightly different execution. The UN only worked right at first then it has failed ever since.


I'd have to say Spin has some points. That letter is classic, sad thing is thats how everyone I know felt. But for the democrats defense there are a bunch(I don't know exact numbers) of illegals that do indeed pay taxes already.

Who here is defending Clinton anyway? All I said is we shouldn't be so quick to be the tyrants of the world, and diss on past presidents for trying to be part of a democracty. I am a Registered Republican after all, but my true loyalties lie with my children and the future of this country. I also voted for bush in 2000, and greatly regret it. There are plenty of better Republicans out there to do the job. John McCain being one I like a lot. Former military and P.O.W. who actually cares for the people and has some sense.

And how old are you that you were able to vote for Clinton? ;)


Of course if either side digs around they'll find plenty of shit to pile up on the other, but currently the piles surrounding our President are far more than is acceptable for our countries leader. And no, those polls aren't wrong. Blind yourself as you will, but when 4 or 5 news publications that have nothing to do with eachother and don't even like eachother much, all come up with near the same result, how can it not be near accurate? Like I said, +-5% max.



That's why I said the system needs serious reform. It needs major attention that Bush isn't giving it because he's too caught up in robbing us blind with the Iraq War.


WOW! lol. So sad. Sad but true. Amazing read.

lol i thought the same about it